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U.S. Ambassador presents his stance on fight against corruption, investments in Armenia and trial of Sasna Tsrer members in exclusive interview (video)

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Mr. Richard Mills, Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary of the United States of America to the Republic of Armenia, gave an exclusive interview to A1+ TV Company. The full text of the interview is presented below. Mr. Ambassador, the day of our interview coincided with Karen Karapetyan’s first year in office as Prime Minister of the Republic of Armenia. So, let us begin with your relations with the Armenian Government. For most of the Armenians, the most important issue is the economic cooperation between the United States and Armenia. Has the investment climate improved in Armenia with the new government? Are there any American companies who are interested in making investments in Armenia? Do you have visible results at the moment? Richard Mills: First of all, I want to thank you for the interview and for the chance to talk to your viewers. I appreciate it very much. I can say there is a lot more U.S. business interest here, in Armenia. I would say that during my two years here we have seen a real significant interest in the number of U.S. businesses and investors who are looking at the Armenian market and what the opportunities are. As you pointed out it is the one-year anniversary of the Prime Minister’s tenure in office and of the new government and we have a new government in the United States as well, since January. I am very pleased that both sides are focused, very much, on building economic ties. So, in addition to more interest from the U.S. business community, we are also seeing more interest from government to government in the economic and trade framework. Just today we welcomed the second visit by the members of the staff of the Office of the United States Trade Representative to Armenia to talk with the Armenian business community about various programs that will help them with exports to the US market. It wouldn’t be appropriate for me to talk about specific businesses or U.S. companies at this time that are looking at your market, but I can tell you that we’re seeing interest in a number of different sectors. In addition to the IT sector, I think in particular there is interest in the tourism sector, as well as, the mining sector and the agricultural sector. The energy sector is of great interest to U.S. investors. We are jealous of our neighbours for the flow of U.S. capital into their countries. I am sure that U.S. businesses have shared [with you] their reasons why they are hesitant to invest in Armenia and start a business here. What can you share with us on this? Richard Mills: Well, again as I said I am pleased that we are seeing more US business interest in Armenia. I think that there is a greater understanding in what the opportunities are, but the real pluses are for a US business person who is looking at making an investment overseas, in Armenia. And the number one resource I think that Armenia has and makes it so attractive to U.S. investors is a very highly educated workforce here in Armenia. I do know that when an investor, any investor, whether an American, Russian, Chinese or German, looks at making investments, their biggest concern is going to be the overall business environment here. And you’re right to identify that there’re still things that need to be done here to improve the business climate in Armenia. I have discussed this with the [Armenian] Government. I had a very frank and useful discussion with the Prime Minister. He asked me what are the concerns that U.S. businesses have about the business climate in Armenia and I was able to share with him what those concerns are. I would just highlight a few. They range from concerns about protection of intellectual property rights. If U.S. investors spend a lot of money developing their brand, like McDonald’s or Gap or others, they want to be sure that if someone also uses their brand illegally, they can protect their rights in court. The issue of intellectual property rights is also very important to Armenian business, because enforcement of IPR laws protects Armenian business as well. For instance, in IT sector, where young Armenians are developing new software programs and mobile apps, they need to be sure that people will pay for those products and not just steal or duplicate them. So, it’s important for Armenians as well to have strong IPR protection. The other issue, I hear a lot about, concerns the lack of transparency in customs, operations and regulations, taxation of businesses and a very important one I hear a lot about is the concern about the judicial system. How independent is it? Can a U.S. business person be confident that if they have to take a business dispute to court in Armenia, they will be treated fairly and that the court will judge them as if with any other business person that comes before them? The next question concerns corruption. It was in the beginning of the year that you criticized the Armenian government for lack of progress in its Anti-Corruption Council and now the Government is establishing a new anti-corruption entity– a corruption prevention commission. And it is said that this one will be positively different from other structures, other mechanisms. What are the obstacles that prevent Armenia from achieving tangible results in the fight against corruption? Are there any grounds to be optimistic about this? Richard Mills: Ultimately, what it takes to fight corruption in any country, in any society is political will, the will of the top, to make sure that laws are enforced equally. What has encouraged me over the last year is that the prime minister and his government understand the seriousness of the corruption issue and how much the Armenian people want to see the government address it. I have discussed the issue of corruption with the Prime Minister and the members of his cabinet, including  the Deputy PM, the Minister of Justice, the Prosecutor General, Head of the Special Investigative Service and other officials. I have discussed with all of them the issues of corruption, how we can help. Ultimately, the decision has to be made that there should be some decisions taken to actually enforce laws and make sure that there is equality in the Armenian judicial system and those engaged in corruption or in bribery are brought to justice. You are right. I was disappointed that there was no progress made with the Anti-Corruption Council over the last 1.5-2 years. As we have a good relationship with our friends, our partners in the Armenian government Armenia and civil society, I was able to tell the government that we have concerns, we want to relook at how we can help fight corruption and maybe the Anti-Corruption Council is not the best way for us to help you. We did not distribute the money we were holding to give to the Anti-Corruption Council completely. In fact, less than 10% of the funding we had promised has been given to the Council. So we’re holding back the rest of the funding and we’re talking now to the government about what they would like us to do with this money. What’s a more useful way to use this funding, either for a completely new purpose, or to change the Anti-Corruption Council, make it different so that it can be more effective and useful. I’ll be honest with you. I am responsible for how U.S. government money, money paid by U.S. taxpayers is used. Nobody wants that money to be used more effectively than I do. And I also need to see results, results from the [Armenian] Government if we’re going to continue to work with them in this area. So, ultimately I want to see, what my government wants to see is the political will to bring corruption cases against very powerful individuals here who may have engaged in illegal practices. We have seen under the leadership of the Prime Minister some cases brought against judges in the last few months which are still being investigated or are still being prosecuted so I cannot say whether these individuals are guilty or not. But that was an important sign and I applaud the Prime Minister. But we also want to see corruption cases brought against others, people who really have political or economic power here and who may have violated the laws on bribery or corruption. Many understand that Armenia is having hard times in making sovereign decisions even when it is an issue of Armenia's national security. You have referred earlier to this issue. What can be the mechanisms and tools for Armenia to be able to make its sovereign decisions and what role can the United States have here? Richard Mills: When I use the term sovereign, our goal is to make Armenia a sovereign, peaceful, democratic state. What I mean is that a sovereign state takes actions that are in the best interests of its people. And what empowers a government or any state to take actions that are in the best interests of its people is a democratic society, an open society where the government can hear what the people really want and can make decisions that are based on what’s in the best interests and wishes of their people. So in my view, the United States helps make Armenia more sovereign, makes the Government take the best decisions possible for the Armenian people. When we strengthen the institutions here that allow the government to understand what the people want and what will be in the best interest for the Armenian people. And those are institutions like strong civil society; free media, free and fair elections that allow the Armenian people to express their views after an electoral debate. Those are the institutions that will make Armenia more sovereign and that’s how the United States wants to help, the way that it can with our partners, to increase the sovereignty of Armenia. And what also makes a country sovereign and allows the government to make the best decisions for people is when that state is growing economically when there is business development and widespread prosperity that filters down to everybody in the country. So that’s also why the United States’ government working with their Armenian partners in the Armenian government is focused on trying to bring that kind of economic growth and business prosperity to Armenia. That will also help Armenia make its sovereign choices and decisions.  Every year your Government provides assistance of three million dollars to Armenia’s law enforcement and judicial system. Do you believe that these resources are spent effectively given the fact that we still have a very low trust towards the police, Office of Prosecutor General, judiciary and investigative bodies? Richard Mills: Let me again say if I didn’t believe that the money we are spending on judicial reform, legal reform, wasn’t moving on purpose, wasn’t improving, I wouldn’t be in the program tomorrow. What I do think is that legal reform, improving confidence in the judicial system, integrity of the judicial system, improving other areas that are involved in judicial administration, prison reform, it takes a lot of time, it is complex, it touches a lot of very important economic and political interests in any country. And that is proven in the case of Armenia; it has been long, it has taken a lot of work. That’s not an excuse but I think it explains why perhaps the judicial sector is not the way we would like it to be after many years of working in the sector with very committed partners, as you said, putting some significant resources into the sector. We’ve seen some success and I think it’s important for all of us to remember that I think it has been very important that we strengthened the defense bar in Armenia, lawyers who represent the accused. That has been an important step forward. I think that e-drafting system that puts judicial laws on computers that makes court cases and court documents more available to public, is a very important step and it has made the system more transparent. We’ve also worked with law enforcement agencies here and I think we’ve seen some improvement, and how law enforcement agencies, for instance, handle large demonstrations, public protests, they are much better at crowd control and all situations. I think we’ve seen improvement and how law enforcement agencies respect human rights of those that are arrested, in general. But as you know, maybe better than anyone, there are still incidences, as well as problems and issues with the law enforcement, in particular, with the judicial system and we need to continue work. One thing that I would like to say is that during my time here as my predecessors did, we constantly monitor and evaluate our programs in these sectors: judicial, legal, law enforcement: what’s working, what’s not working, what are our priorities and I’ll be honest, during my time here we have made some changes in what we’re focused on and what we’re doing with that three million dollars of money every year. For instance, in the last year and a half we’ve shifted. And now most of that money is focused on programs that deal with two things in the judicial sector and in law enforcement sector: how to fight corruption and increase the public integrity of those institutions and to help them protect human rights, basic human rights for anyone involved in this system. Human rights violations are left unpunished here. Just let us take the recent case last July with the demonstrations with the Sasna Tsrer (Daredevils of Sassoun) when the police used violence against protestors and journalists. You went to hospitals, you saw some of the injured. A year has passed but so far, not a single representative from law enforcement has been punished for these acts. What can you say about this? Richard Mills: Well, I did visit in the hospital some of those who were injured last July, during the events of the night of July of 29th to 30th. I was, to be honest, quite shocked by some of the things that I saw, what some of the victims had suffered. And it made quite an impression on me. As I said at that time, both privately to the government and publicly, the police rendered a lot of pressure during that period. There were large demonstrations every night through weeks on time during that tragic event. But there was no excuse for the kind of violence, particularly the violence that appeared to be directed to journalists that evening. And the breakdown in discipline, the violence that we saw that night was particularly disappointing because I thought, to be honest, that the law enforcement agencies had done a pretty good job up to that moment by allowing Armenians to peacefully protest and demonstrate themselves, while maintaining order. So to see that breakdown that night was a disappointment. We called for thorough and full investigation into what happened and for the government and the legal system in Armenia to take appropriate action against anyone who was found to have engaged in violence that night. And, we also expressed that privately in conversations I had with the government. We highlighted it in our human rights report last year. And we will discuss the issue again in our annual human rights report this year, talking about how effective or ineffective legal action has been in addressing and punishing those who were involved in the violence last July.  I believe you are following the trial of the Daredevils of Sassoun, of oppositionist Zhirar Sefilian; and we are seeing obstacles for access of lawyers into the courtroom. Some defense lawyers are not allowed to get into the court and defendants are left without defense in the courtroom. Is this something of a human rights issue? What do you think about this? Richard Mills: Well, first of all, let me say, we are monitoring those cases. It’s not for me as the U.S. Ambassador to comment on any individual case that is in the Armenian legal system right now. But in general, we expect the Armenian legal system to ensure that the rights of any defendant in the system are fully protected and the process of law is given to the defendants. Part of ensuring due process in a court proceeding is making sure that the rules are clear about who can come into the courtroom, what they can bring into the courtroom and unfortunately in the time we’re living now, what will be the security rules, governing those who come into the courtroom. So, my only comment on that particular issue of legal access and lawyers is that it is important that there be clear rules on this kind of issues. We have this kind of rules now in U.S. courts about who can come in, will there be searches; and in most U.S. courtrooms there are searches before you can enter unfortunately because of past experience we had with violence in U.S. courtrooms. And it’s important that everyone understands what the criteria and rules are. So I would encourage the bar and the judges here to have clear guidance so that everyone understands. There is a U.S. citizen, Garo Yeghnukian who is in prison in Armenia on charges of assisting the Daredevils of Sassoun. He is not admitting the guilt and he is saying that it’s a political persecution against him. And Armenian authorities are saying that it’s necessary to keep him under detention. Is that enough of an explanation for you? Richard Mills: Again, it’s not appropriate for me as the U.S. Ambassador, while this court proceeding is moving forward, to comment on the charges or the strength of the charges. That is for the Armenian legal system to decide through a free, fair process that gives all the defendants, including Mr. Yeghnukian, due process. We are very closely monitoring the case, including Mr. Yeghnukian’s treatment about the case. And, again we are making it very clear to our friends in the Armenian government that we expect all the defendants, including Mr. Yenukian, to be given due process and to be treated fairly and in accordance with the Armenian law. As I said, I do not want to comment on particular cases. And in this case the issue of pretrial detention, I can say that in general we’ve been concerned for some time as a friend of Armenia about the use of pretrial detention in the legal system here. And our view and I think a widely accepted view in human rights community and in the international legal practice, is that pretrial detention, putting someone in jail before their trial is a last resource. It should be done only when there are no other options and when a case has been presented that not putting the accused into jail before their trial, risks harm to society, there is a risk of flight, or there is the risk that the person will interfere in that investigation and the trial. It does seem too often in our view that defendants in Armenian trials are put in pre-trial holding in detention without any of those three cases being made, without being shown that there is a risk of flight, or the risk that they’ll cause more violence, or that they’ll interfere in the investigation. And, that’s a concern. It has been a concern that we have expressed for the last several years, in our human rights reports and some of our public and private discussions with the Government. And I would hope, again not speaking specifically about the facts of the case, but I would hope in this case that the judges considered carefully the rationale for holding certain people on pretrial detention. There are certain individuals who are on trial with the Daredevils who did not take any part in, that there is no evidence being presented that they took part in the seizure of the police station, that they were involved in the violence. And I think there is an extra burden there on the judge to make sure that there is a reason to hold those people in pretrial detention. Since they didn’t commit any violent act and it doesn’t appear that they present a risk. So, that would be my one concern about pretrial detention in this case and more generally.